Ten Ton Hammer had a post cheering Caldari in Eve. Allow me to rebut.
10. Shields Rule
- Yeah they're great... until you realize you have no mid slots left for tackle... until you realize your signature is the size of a small moon and thus easy to target and hit.
9. Missiles Rock
- Try fighting at any reasonable distance and waiting impatiently for your missiles to get to the target. Watch in horror as a speed tanking inty laughs as he closes in on you. Gasp in horror as you realize your cross training options are limited to a small smattering of Amarr and Minmatar and to be a real veteran you have to train gunnery skills from the start anyways.
8. Electronic Warfare Specialists
- Yeah ECM is cool compared to the others... except for that pesky habit of being targeted first all the time. And the ships having piss poor tanks as a result of slamming as much ECM as possible. Gimped for success!
7. Available Equipment
- What are you, poor? Everyone gets stuff in a hub or accepts the markups in the outlying regions. I've never said, "Damn, that Gallente ship is tooooo expensive here in 0.0!"
6. Caldari Are Popular
- Yes, space filled to the brim is great! Except for the lag, competition, ninja mission salvagers, can flippers, scam artists, and drained resources.
5. Well designed ships
- There are plenty, PLENTY, of shit designed Caldari ships. This point is just perception bias. Raptor, Hawk, Vulture, Eagle, Cerberus, Widow, Kitsune, Nighthawk, Ferox, Cormorant, Moa.... to name a few. I'm not saying these ships are broken, but they are far from Well Designed. The other races are at least as well designed.
6. A Good Path Of Progression For Hybrid Turret Users
-That's their numbering, not mine. Copy paste for the win folks. Yes, there is A path of progression, but with the Raptor, Vulture, Ferox, Moa all being less than ideal AND the lack of new hybrid platforms from CCP I can only say expect to be in a dead end in Caldari Hybrids pretty fast and training Gallente instead. That reminds me, Merlin poorly designed as well. Look at more than just ship bonuses, dude; try slot layout.
5. A Good Path Of Progression For Missile Users
- Ok, I'll give one to you. If you are a missile fanatic, Caldari is the race for you. Of course, you'll be marginalized in null sec fleet combat but whatever works for you.
4. Best Overall Fleet Ship - Drake
- The Drake may be the FOTM right now, but your list is going to look really stupid if (when) CCP changes things and the Drake falls out of favour. Not to mention tactics are being developed right now that might make the Drake fleets a weapon in the alliance arsenal and not the only choice. After all, the people that said train Minmatar for the Vagabond, Gallente for the nos-Domi, and Amarr for the pulse Zealot don't look so smart right now, eh?
3. Bustling Faction Warfare
- If Caldari are busy, then Gallente is busy too. And I'm pretty sure Minmatar and Amarr conflict is as busy. This seems... subjective at best.
2. The Most Well-Rounded Stealth Bomber
- Hmmm... his arguments sound valid I guess, but the advantage the Manitcore has over the others is so slight on the scale of ship effectiveness per role, that I'd be embarassed to include it in a list like this. He's reaching, and he doesn't have to with a list of 11 items due to "can't count" syndrome.
1. Caldari Are Damn Cool
Subjective again, as none of the empires has a particularly unique theme in sci fi tropes.
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Don't get me wrong: I'm originally specced Caldari Hybrids and I think overall the faction they are OK, but there are times I wish I had started out with Gallente or Minmatar.
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I've said it often and I'll say it again, just to make sure the point gets across: Caldari is latin for "lack of gank".
ReplyDeleteI started out Caldari and spent a looong time having nothing to fly in fleets that anyone wanted anything to do with, dying first in Scorpions and trying to figure out how to tackle in a paper-thin Crow. I discovered quickly the only way to be cool as a Caldari pilot was to not be a Caldari pilot - so in a month I'll finally have finished my goal of training all four races up to BS. I hardly fly any Caldari ships now, except the Drake (for those damn swarms) and the Manticore (cause it is the best sb) on a daily basis. The NH, Tengu are good ships and I love mine, the Falcon/Rook combo is the best of the ECM boats, but other than that, pfft.
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ReplyDeleteYeah, the real reason to fly Caldari at the moment is:
ReplyDelete10-Drake
9-Drake
8-Drake
7-Drake
6-Drake
5-Drake
4-Drake
3-Drake
2-Drake
1-Drake
Fortunately, if you already have missile and shield skills, all it takes is profficiency in Caldari Cruisers and your BC V already applies. It's such a quick tangent, that you're silly not to.
but at least the Rokh has a decent drone bay...oh, wait, nm. :)
ReplyDeletei totally agree, as a caldari! After training almost every caldari ship (got a tengu and a chimera) i am cross training to gallente for pvp.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention the best reason to NOT be Caldari is that you can look disdainfully down your nose at all the other FOTM kiddies in their cap-stable mission fits and proudly proclaim that they suck.
ReplyDeleteSome other good reasons to be Caldari:
a) You will have missiles skills for those launcher hard points when you cross train for [insert anything].
b) Similarly, you have good shield skills for that Ishtar fit you've been meaning to try.
c) You will be right out in front with your new Hookbill when Rockets get a buff [until you realise it was not what you really wanted anyway].
d) At least missiles fly faster than drones?
e) Arguably the most efficient mission running ships.
and finally
f) You can fly both the Primary Target [Rook/Scorpion] and the last target [all the other Caldari ships].
Not everyone does 0.0 sov warfare.
ReplyDeleteA friggin men. if people actually think first they will see where your posts hits the nail squarely on the head.
ReplyDeleteI've just realised that I could fly a Drake, albeit only with T1 missiles, but I could. As a Gallente this makes me feel slightly unclean.
ReplyDeleteKirith, On you latest podcast (thanks for the mention and the linkage, btw) you hold the Drake shield tank needs to be nerfed. Now you say its shield tank is a disadvantage as it forces one to choose between tank and ECM/Point in the mids.
ReplyDeleteYou also point out the weakness in long range missiles that limits the Drake's offensive capability. So, if I understand you, you want to nerf the Drake's tank so it's at a disadvantage on both offense and defense.
Seems like you're trying to have it both ways ;-)
@ Mord: The Fleet Drake's shield tank overcomes the disadvantages of typical shield tanking because it is not required to have ECM tackle AND its so high in terms of EHP and typcially has logi support as to not worry about high sig radius.
ReplyDeleteOn typical Caldari ships in non-fleet situations, the disadvantages are more pronounced.
As for missiles, I think the downside in long range missiles exists for the Drake but the FLEET drake overcomes this by virtue of lag condition, massive alpha strike, and typcially operating at shortranges where flight time delay is less of an issue. The Raven / Cerb fighting at +100 km range feel this downside far more.
That may not be the most solid article in the world, but your counter-points aren't any better, and many are a great deal more subjective.
ReplyDeleteAs I see it, the Caldari have the best ratting ships in the game (including the best 0.0 ratter). Drakes and missiles are flavor of the month at least until nerfed. ECM is still king of the heap -- you complain about having to trade between tank and ECM, but that is essentially the same trade off than any damage ship needs to make, and Caldari have way more mid-slots to trade off than the other races. They aren't really any good at solo ganking (though this ironically lets them be good bait, I see plenty of solo drakes and ravens on gates in low-sec). They also are kind of screwed in that they split their ships between two weapon systems, and if you specialize in rails you need to cross train into another race for dreadnoughts. They don't really have a ship like the Vagabond or Zealot, but I'd sure as shit put them above Gallente, whose tech two ships are in the shitter right now.
I dunno. That's my two cents.